Interview by J. Warner Soditus
"But we have this treasure in Jars of clay to show that this
"But we have this treasure in Jars of clay to show that this
all-surpassing power is from God and not from us."
--II Corinthians 4:7
That verse is the focus behind one of the hot new bands of the year, Jars of Clay. "The jar of clay is a picture of something so easily broken," explains Steve Mason, "that you wouldn't put a valuable treasure in it, yet God does that anyway. That one verse paints in full the picture of what we're trying to communicate."
In addition to Mason on guitar and bass, the band is Dan Haseltine as lead vocalist, Matt Odmark on guitar, and Charlie Lowell on keyboards.
The band won the 1994 Gospel Music Association Spotlight Award. They beat out over 200 other unsigned bands to win the contest. That award catapulted them into a position of major industry interest, leading them to sign a contract with Essential Records. Their self-titled debut this year was self-produced, except for two tracks produced by Adrian Belew, and brought a fresh and unique acoustic alternative sound.
I talked with the four guys a little bit at this year's Gospel Music Association--a year after they won their big award.
JWS: How about if we start with some background?
Charlie: Steve and Dan and I went to Greenville College in southern Illinois. Dan and I went there for two years; Steve went for one year. Matt and I grew up together in New York. We went to high school together and were in a garage band. Steve and Dan and I lived on the same dorm floor at school and were friends and had similar interests in music and started writing together. Steve and I were in the CCM program at Greenville, so I had some studio recording classes and had a lot of pre-studio time. We wrote some songs and did some demo projects for school. We sent three songs to Spotlight, the GMA contest, last year and ended up winning--totally to our surprise. That opened the door to a lot of label interest and our CD was pressed a week or two later, so we sent it out. GMA helped distribute it to all the different labels. Months later, we moved down here and started having meetings with different people at the labels.
JWS: Did you guys manage to graduate college?
Charlie: No. Matt, Dan, and I have gone through two years, and Steve has gone through one year. So, "sabbatical," "dropouts," whatever you want to call us. [Laughter]
JWS: What were some of the musical commonalties among you--things you listened to and things like that?
Steve: Charlie and I both met Dan in different years through a Toad the Wet Sprocket T-shirt. We're all pretty big Toad the Wet Sprocket fans, so that's a big influence.
Charlie: Dan and I were kinda big into Depeche Mode and Pet Shop Boys.
JWS: I don't hear that in the album.
Charlie: Yeah, on our demo, it kinda came out some more. We all really enjoy the folk/acoustic element which we're really trying to bring out now.
JWS: So what are you guys listening to now? More of the same?
All: [Chorus of answers] Sarah McLachlan, Seal, a lot of "school music," the new Sixpence [None the Richer] album is really good.
JWS: So you guys did the demo, sent it to the GMA, and ended up winning?
Steve: I guess the ironic thing about all that was that we didn't set out to form a band, cut a CD, try to get a deal and move to Nashville. It was really just out of the enjoyment of it.
Charlie: The CD was just--"Let's see if we can do it."
Steve: "..and let's think of a band name, because we need one." [Laughter]
JWS: So who came up with the name?
Steve: Troy [VanLiere, the band's manager] did.
Charlie: I read over the Scripture--it's from II Corinthians 4:7. I read it first in high school, and then we ended up using it because it seemed really appropriate for what we were doing.
JWS: So are you guys all living together here in Nashville?
Charlie: Yeah, in a two-bedroom apartment. It's kinda fun.
JWS: Is it working out fairly well?
Charlie: Yeah.
Steve: We haven't killed each other yet. [Laughter]
Dan: We kinda lived together for a long time, because Steve was my roommate in college and Charlie lived on the same floor as us two years in a row.
Charlie: It's been a real learning experience. We always joke that we're taking a lot of principles with us if and when we ever do get married, because we've learned a lot about communication. Just recently, we learned more lessons about forgiving and being forgiven.
Charlie: You know, some of it, a lot of it is almost too much like Spinal Tap.
JWS: Are you guys working day jobs now?
Charlie: We were for the summer. We moved down here at the end of the school year and during the summer kinda went through the wilderness.
Dan: We worked at an office supply store from 9:00 at night til 7:00 in the morning--we were re-modeling the store. What an amazing job. We paid our dues there.
Steve: It's good for a video now.
Dan: Yeah. We did that for a while. We all took different jobs. I think I worked at almost every record store in Nashville for a day or so. It's very true. I thought--once only in theory, now out of experience--that musicians can't keep a job.
JWS: Why is that? Is there something different about you guys?
Dan: It's so unpredictable.
Charlie: Yeah, that's really it. The scheduling is so spontaneous a lot of times.
JWS: So it's the music industry, not the musicians.
Dan: Yeah. I think it's just the circumstances surrounding [us].
Charlie: Tour for a while, then stop for a while, then record for a while.
JWS: So you didn't ever think you'd be doing anything like this, really?
Dan: I think it was in the back of our minds, as a dream. But it wasn't anything that we were pursuing fully to try to accomplish anything close to this.
JWS: What was the procedure in deciding who to sign with?
Dan: Lots and lots of meetings, lots of prayer.
Steve: The whole summer, while going from job to job, we were trying to schedule around meetings with different labels. We talked to most of the major Christian labels in town and finally settled on Essential, because they're a small label. We wanted to be actively a part of the creative process, the art work, and all the other things. We noticed at other labels it wasn't as easy to be a part of that. It was smaller, there was more of a family atmosphere and we felt more of a common vision in ministry. They were really excited about what we wanted to do.
Charlie: They were really tuned in. We hardly even had to explain what we wanted to do as a group and our vision. They were very much on the same wavelength.
JWS: You think it helps that Robert's [Beeson, head of Essential] a musician?
Charlie: Yeah, it does. He's very creative.
JWS: What's on line for the next few months?
Charlie: We will be traveling in a van all over the place, just doing shows--I guess wherever they can book us.
JWS: Are you doing any of the major festivals?
Dan: We have two festivals confirmed right now. We're doing AtlantaFest-- the Edge stage there, sharing the stage with Prayer Chain and The Choir, I think. And also we're doing Agape.
JWS: Too bad you're not going to be at Creation.
Dan: Oh, we would love to play Creation.
JWS: So what have been some of the best memories so far?
Steve: When we got our apartment.
Dan: The new apartment. We sat down the first night we were in our new apartment--we moved from a lesser part of Antioch to a little nicer part--and it was right before things started happening for us; it was before we were signed. And we all sat down and said, "Alright, a lot of things are gonna happen in this apartment. A lot of important decisions are going to be made. A lot of struggles are going to happen in this apartment." We sat down and prayed for a long time and sang some songs. It was a really great time to reflect on what was going to happen and try to get our minds in order and get our feet on the ground before we jumped into what is typically called "a whirlwind" of activity. That's a memory that I enjoy.
Steve: I remember calling my mom after we won at Spotlight Showcase last year. [We were] college students on a week-long vacation and [we called] at 2:00 in the morning, "Mom, we won!"
Matt: I really enjoyed the process of mixing the album especially. [Scattered yeah's of agreement] We had a difficult time recording--we learned a lot out of this, but we produced the album ourselves, except for two songs that Adrian Belew did. It was really hard for four guys to produce an album and agree on everything. There was a lot of stress there. So, mixing it was a time when we could sit back and let the engineers do an amazing job--just "mix away"--and we could finally sit there and listen and appreciate the songs and see them in a different light, instead of causing tension and a lot of disagreement.
JWS: What were some of the most trying times?
Dan: A lot of it was more dealing on a personal level in our relationships. There wasn't much from an industry or business standpoint that was really a struggle for us. It was kinda like God allowed the things in the industry to just happen along side what we were doing in our own lives as far as relationships with other people, getting over things, and getting to a point where we could minister effectively. So, industry stuff was never really a problem. But personally, we had many times when we had disagreements that would bring the band almost totally apart--struggles that we went through that make God just work through us, some of which were very difficult things to do.
JWS: You think a lot of that comes from not planning for all this to happen?
Steve: Yeah. It was very emotionally upsetting--the whole transition--finding roles and deciding how different things would contribute to the group.
Dan: Why we were doing it and what we wanted it to do for us.
Charlie: That seemed to be the biggest thing--why we were doing it. I commented earlier on "the wilderness" and didn't expound. The summer was a time when God totally took the music away and dealt with that and let it happen by itself. He took us each individually, and then as a group, and broke us first, and then reconstructed our beliefs and our thoughts on what our plans were for this. Matt came down and we really had to start from scratch again. We still continue to get reconstructed from time to time. It's just like discipline--it's not fun, but it's necessary for our good.
JWS: Did you guys all grow up in Christian homes?
Steve: Yeah, Christian parents. Dan and I share a common thing--our parents split when we were in high school?
Dan: Yeah, Steve and I both went through divorces. Well, our parents went through divorces [Laughter] when we were in high school.
JWS: Well, what did I miss?
All: [Chorus of responses] We just shot a video for our first single. We love Nashville. We love coffee. We love Ren and Stimpy, too.
I think that really covers it. As long as we got Ren and Stimpy in there, I think you've got a complete interview.
I also got a chance to talk with Steve Mason on the phone a few weeks later to add a little more information to our brief Nashville chat.
JWS: When we talked in Nashville, you said you couldn't talk about the Fall tour since it wasn't finalized. Is it nailed down yet?
Steve: That has been confirmed. We'll be out with PFR for three months--September to November. We're glad to get to work with them again.
JWS: Just the two bands?
Steve: Yeah.
JWS: And how long will they give you to play?
Steve: About a half-an-hour
JWS: Not a lot of time.
Steve: Yeah, but we'd love to headline, but... We're having fun now doing some solo dates on our own where we get an hour or so to play. We're excited to work with them again--they're great people.
JWS: Life in the apartment is still okay?
Steve: It's still interesting. I'm reminded daily of grace and how it applies to those relationships. It's neat in the summer as we have more time to spend together that's not of a business nature. Since going on our first tour we've tried to talk more about the next tour and things we want to be more aware of; where we knew we weren't strong and need to be.
JWS: [general talking about the internet]
Steve: It's opened a whole new world for us--being able to touch base with people. It's more impersonal, but... we love to get personal mail.
JWS: Do you guys all go to church together?
Steve: We all go to Christ Community. Even though we're not in college, we attend the college class there.
JWS: Even though you guys dropped out... [Laughter]
Steve: Yeah, well...
JWS: Yeah, you guys will go back...
Steve: There's always part-time... We go to the college group since in the business we don't get to hang out with people our age much.
JWS: I bet. You guys are pretty young, right?
Steve: Yeah, we're 19 to 22. I'm the youngest, so I have to go to bed earliest.
JWS: They're like those older brothers you never had.
Steve: Sort of. Everybody looks out for everybody else. But in some respects, it's every man for himself.
JWS: I heard you guys are going to do a couple tracks for a Christmas album?
Steve: Yeah. We're very excited. In our initial excursion in the studio at Greenville College, we cut a Christmas song, "Little Drummer Boy." We didn't mess with it much and we wanted something to help give the album a push this winter. We'll re-record that and "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen." And there's another one.
JWS: Will these be radio singles, or for sale?
Steve: Singles, but they're talking of having it for sale with the album, or giving it away if you buy the album.
JWS: Looking back, how was GMA for you this year?
Steve: It was encouraging in many respects. We know it's easy to get bogged down in the industry, and continually we need to be putting ourselves in check. I think the way the industry relates to us as far as press goes and what light we take that in, it came at the end of the PFR tour and we really had a good chance to sit down and evaluate things and see where we're growing. It made a big difference in our attitudes that week--remembering why we're doing this.
JWS: Did you get a lot of questions that surprised you?
Steve: The buzz was a little frightening at first. We didn't expect the excitement and encouragement. It was really encouraging to see people excited about our ministry. That caught us off-guard. We didn't know what to expect.
JWS: Did it helped solidify some of your own opinions, to pull thoughts together more concisely?
Steve: GMA week solidified, God has been confirming certain decisions--we know that God has called us and we're trying to be good stewards of that gift. Also, the Spotlight showcase and went back to that after playing [and winning] last year. That was quite an emotional time to think what God has done in a year, and what He will do in the next year.
JWS: Did you get summer jobs now?
Steve: We struggled through GMA. That was a drought. In June things picked up.
JWS: Those royalty checks, right?
Steve: Wow. Those were great. Vanguard, our booking agent, is trying to book us up this summer.
JWS: So, what is a typical day like in the Jars of Clay house? Or, should I call it the adobe house or something... [Laughter]
Steve: [Laughter] I think today was pretty typical. We do a lot of cleaning. We try to be clean. We shock people with the state that the apartment usually stays in. We were on the phone most of the morning. We got a business line put in, actually. We usually talk to our manager every day trying to get the riders from concerts taken care of. We are in the process of writing songs for the next album, since we don't want that to be something we have to force out of us later. We've been able to take a few hours a day to do that. Right now, we're in between in a lot of ways. We're having to process a lot more, and a lot of decisions to make. We're trying to stay ready for all that is going to come. With four different people, there's four different ways we could go, so we try to stay in unity in that respect.
JWS: Who are the people you guys turn to for advice and encouragement?
Steve: Our management has been very good in that respect. We can't say enough good things about Essential, especially Robert Beeson, the director of Essential, when we didn't have a manager. We felt really blessed to be with them there. Many people we've met working in the industry have developed into deep friendships.
JWS: Have you been surprised by some of the comparisons you've gotten in reviews?
Steve: Bruce Brown did a review that I thought was really poignant. He heard our demo that was more techno and we made an effort to strip that down and make it more earthy without sacrificing the energy. He was comparing us to something, but it was right on. We try to keep it simple. That's what I like about Dan's lyrics. They're simple in the difficult things we sing about.
JWS: Is there a plan to composing?
Steve: We usually start from the acoustic guitar. Matt or I come up with a riff. Dan writes his lyric and melody at the same time, which is pretty unusual. Ultimately we like to assume divine intervention. It's funny, we're doing a songwriter's convention--and we don't really have a system.
JWS: You can tell people, "Here's how we write. Don't do it like this."
Steve: Exactly. I can say it's a privilege to be a part of it. I haven't really written anything by myself that I've been happy with.
JWS: Another thing that probably helps is that you haven't been each out on your own for years doing it your own way and suddenly have to work together.
Steve: Right. That's definitely had an effect on it. I think that's a special part of it--we're so young. We're experiencing the same things.
JWS: I for one, will be happy to watch the band as they continue to "grow up" on their next album.*
*Interview transcribed from http://tlem.netcentral.net/features/9507/jars_of_clay.html
© Copyright 1995 The Lighthouse Electronic Magazine. All rights reserved.